HP Fandom Wankery

[sharelle]

I saw this quite a bit on my flist over the last two days. I haven't even finished reading all of it, but I can't get over how sad the whole situation is.

Aside from reading the books, and a small number of fics back in the day, I really am glad I never, ever - in any way, shape, or form - got involved in the Harry Potter fandom. It's just not worth the aggravation of wading through all the unpleasant politics.

This whole story is very sad to me. Yes, it's sad because of the people whose feelings were hurt as a result, but most especially because reading it brought to light (for me, anyway) all of the apparent bitterness circulating throughout the HP fandom in general.

I've always had such fun in the circles in which I've involved myself. I've met lovely people and, although there has been the occasional kerfluffle, I've had very positive experiences.

It must be very sad to be involved in something that, while supposed to be fun, does so much to foster resentful - even nasty - feelings toward others who don't have the same fandom beliefs as you.

Comments

[jenjojen.livejournal.com]

HP fanfic was the first fic I ever read, even before Buffy stuff, but that is about the extent of my involvement in HP fandom. I always thought the Spuffy/Bangel wank was bad, until the seedy underbelly of HP fandom became known. It's crazy and sad that people can ruin something so enjoyable. I agree with you. Fandom should be a fun thing to be involved in, not bitter and angry.

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

I always did my best to avoid the situation whenever any Spuffy/Bangel wankery was going on because I heard all too often how bad that could get. When I read this, though . . . *shakes head*

I couldn't get over the "this-group-hates-anyone-involved-with-that-website" and "my-friends-are-going-to-dislike-your-friends-purely-on-principle" nonsense going on. It's really a shame.

[deathisyourart.livejournal.com]

I stay far away from the HP fandom; I just can't stomach the rampant pedophile and incest fics. As much as I support fanfic... I feel that the fanfic that came out of that fandom ruined what was great about the books.

I'll read my books and watch my movies and avoid the people who disturb me!

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

That was one of the reasons I'm so glad I never involved myself any deeper than reading a small handful of fics. So much of what was going on would have surely ruined the love I have for the books.

(PS -- That icon is adorable! *G*)

[juliejordan.livejournal.com]

Oh I hate the incest fics. There just seems something so horribly wrong with Weasleycest or Twincest. I don't care how well written the story is, the minute I see that the fic is incest I hit the back button.

Narnia incest is a growing trend as well. Ugh.

[r-scribbles.livejournal.com]

I won't read any fic with children having sex. Full stop. Teenagers is one thing, because I've known some people who've felt ready at 14/15, but kids of the Narnia age? Ew. Incest really doesn't appeal to me either.

Mind you, I've been known to enjoy the odd bit of slashy adult N/C fic (poor Leggy gets raped a LOT in LotR fic, I've noticed!) so I'm not really coming from a very strong moral standpoint!

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

The Narnia kids having sex? That seems a little unsettling.

I don't like incest in stories either. (There have been authors I really enjoy who have gone that route and I simply couldn't read their stories - no matter how good they probably were.)

I can only think of one story (in the Firefly verse) that made allusions to incest as a subplot that I actually thought was handled well.

[r-scribbles.livejournal.com]

River/Simon? Nah, see that doesn't wash with me. It just seems like an unwillingness to believe that two people can have that kind of powerful emotional tie without wanting to shag each other senseless. Part of what I really like about River/Simon in Firefly/Serenity is the innocence of that bond - it's a very childlike relationship, even on Simon's part - he's the protective big brother who'll do anything for his baby sister, yet it's just as powerful as, say, the sexually charged bond between Zoe & Wash.

And the Narnia Kids... No. Just NO! There's so many things wrong with the concept of them getting jiggy.

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't have read it if it hadn't been a primarily W/Z story. I also wouldn't actively go looking for other stories like it. And I definitely agree with you -- bonds of love don't always have to be sexualized. I always enjoyed the innocence of the connection between Simon and River.

Though that didn't stop Joss from "going there" on occasion. There's one deleted scene from "Our Mrs. Reynolds" that involves River pestering Book to marry her and Simon. It was meant to be funny, but still . . . Eep!

[r-scribbles.livejournal.com]

Yes - I saw that - doesn't she put a pillow up her jumper and pretend to be pregnant? You see, I thought that was very innocent too, like a little boy I know who reckons he's going to marry his mummy when he grows up, because he loves his mummy the most. That concept of 'love' without bringing sex into it that would make sense to River - she and Simon love each other, so they should get married.

The outtake where Zoe & Mal are wearing Wash-like mustaches still makes me giggle like an idiot. And I'd have loved to have seen the outtake they described in The Message, where Mal gets behind every character during a slow pan. Hee hee!

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

Not only is that a lovely way of picturing the Simon-River situation, but it makes it so much sadder in a way.

Ah, yes! The extended gag reel! Not only was that scene from "The Message" hysterical, but Alan Tudyk has got such a bawdy sense of humor that you don't really get to see on the edited version. Hee!

I actually have that gag reel on my computer. Would you like it? I'd be happy to upload it for you. :)

[r-scribbles.livejournal.com]

Ooooh! That would be super-dooper!

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

No problem! FileFactory says it should be up in about an hour. (Which is strange because it's only a 13-minute file, but . . . *shrugs*)

I'll post as soon as I get the link. ;)

[seal-girl.livejournal.com]

I spent most of yesterday morning reading up on that topic - it was depressingly fascinating (if anything can be!) So much time, effort and energy wasted like that is very very sad.

Fandom should be fun! And I now consider myself very fortunate to have met such nice people through it. It's a great shame that not every one can say the same.

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

So much time, effort and energy wasted like that is very very sad.

Absolutely! I looked at the time it must have taken to chronicle the entire occurrence, and then thought of how much planning must have gone into carrying it out! I can't imagine putting that much effort into forcing recognition and acceptance from people I may never meet.

I much prefer the circles I'm in. Everyone has always been very accepting and nice right away . . . which has made the experience fun. And, as you said, that's what fandom is supposed to be.

[juliejordan.livejournal.com]

I haven't read your link, but I know from just lurking around in it what an awful, horrid fandom the HP one is. Aside from a brief time where I posted sparodically on FictionAlley (and stopped in the end because I got so sick of their "no one liner posts" rule, which is the STUPIDEST board rule I've ever seen) and posting a few One Shot fanfics of my own, I make a firm point of staying WELL AWAY.

The whole damn fandom just scares me to death. These people are insane (in a bad way), snarky, bitchy, jealous backstabbers and it is SO not worth it. Don't get me started on the BNFs...is it possible to be a BNF and not become a total moron? I've met very few BNFs who I don't want to punch in the face, so to speak. The attitude of these people is appauling. So stuck up, so high school, but worse. Unfortuantly BNFs exist in most every fandom...there's almost always those one or two fans who have their own little snotty clique and have a trail of people who leave them glowing reviews for their often over-rated fanfics. Maybe this rant is making me come off as jealous, and maybe to a point I am - who wouldn't want to be recognised for their fics, etc? Although I do have to say I'd never want BNF status. Far too much wankery comes with that.

But yes, the HP fandom is the worst out there I think. The "Back to the Future" fandom is pretty bad too...I tried to post on the BTTF.com board a few times but the atmosphere of that place is so cold, clique and unwelcoming that I didn't stick around. The Buffy fandom I've dabbled in a little but not enough to really see it's nasty side. And then there's the Doctor Who fandom, which has been on my bad side for some time.

Thank God the D&DC fandom is so nice. I've moaned about it being quiet and small but I think I'd much rather have that than have it be anything like the HP fandom.

[seal-girl.livejournal.com]

"the D&DC fandom is so nice. I've moaned about it being quiet and small but I think I'd much rather have that than have it be anything like the HP fandom."

*Cheers in the cheering section*

To darn right!

[r-scribbles.livejournal.com]

I love our little fandom. It's so creative and suportive, and there's so many ridiculously talented people there. We're great, really, aren't we?

*smug*

[seal-girl.livejournal.com]

Yeah!
We're all brilliant, clever, talented, and VERY modest!
Aren't we just!

*smug* too

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

Go team D&DC!

We've got spirit, yes we do! We've got spirit, how 'bout you?

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

It's possible that the original BNFs (who, I'm willing to bet, were probably from the HP fandom) were the ones who started calling themselves that, anyway. It's like a high school popularity contest -- very eyeroll-worthy. I've always been much happier in the circles in which I've chosen to involve myself.

I'm surprised that BTTF is so bad. As a fandom, they're just as old as D&DC, so it's not like they're as high-profile as Harry Potter would be. I try to avoid any kerfluffles that occur in the Buffy fandom, and I generally avoid DW - except to watch the show.

[juliejordan.livejournal.com]

I'm surprised that BTTF is so bad.

It could just be me, or that particular place in the fandom. I don't really want to go back and test that theory.

This post made me think

[empresspatti.livejournal.com]

That it would be a good idea for everyone to step away from the computer and go outside to play.

Maybe sitting on the ass in a room alone with a computer is not always the most constructive, fun use of time.

Re: This post made me think

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

I think this story pretty much proves that. Some people do have an unhealthy attachment to the internet. (And to earning acceptance and recognition from people they've never really met.)

As for me, I'm going outside now. :)

[curiouswombat.livejournal.com]

One night, when I have nothing else to do, I am going to read it all - I never read HP fanfic and don't know any of the people involved - but it looks as if the whole thing is a wonderful soap opera - someone really ought to make the film.

And then people could start writing the fanfic....

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

I know some of those involved by name only. (Mainly because, when some of the wank was happening, some members of my flist would link to the events.) For as sad as the situation is, you're absolutely right: it really is just like a complicated soap opera.

And it certainly does deserve its own fic.

[hobbituk.livejournal.com]

Well, I for one can't get over how there is so much nastiness among so called adults in a fandom around children's books.

I never really got into the fandom because bottom line, the main characters are largely children. And the NC17 stuff about children in the fanfic squicks me out a bit...

[juliejordan.livejournal.com]

I can read it no problem if the kids are over 16. I dislike adult/child pairings with any character who is under 16 - that icks me, and then the insect stuff I mentioned earlier. Most NC17 stuff is worth keeping away from anyway though if only because its badly written, OOC crap. Very few people can do smut well or convincingly IMHO.

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

Even if the characters are over 16, I can sometimes be a little iffy. I'm okay with reading it for the most part (D&DC pairings have never bothered me), but I don't think I could ever write it. My students are all that age and I find writing it to be icky.

It wasn't until I joined the Buffy fandom that I started finding quality NC-17 fics. There were, of course, poorly-written ones as well, but certain authors are quite good.

[juliejordan.livejournal.com]

Well in the UK 16 is the legal age of consent. Isn't it 18 in the US? Maybe that's why I'm a little more relaxed about reading about 16 year olds doing it. Under 16 though, no thanks. That just makes me feel like a paedophile even if the truth is that kids as young as 11 are fucking each other in this country.

The best NC17 fics I've read in the HP fandom have been by "Cinnamon" and "Nancy", both on FictionAlley. Cinnamon is one of those people who can seem to pull of any pairing - she even made me like Draco/Ron. She writes amazing, realisitc sex scenes as well. But yeah, good smut is generally very hard to find in HPdom.

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

Yeah, around here it's 18. And like I said, if it's handled well, I can read stories that contains characters that are a *little* younger. Not much younger, though.

I've not gotten into many stories that were too graphic in the HP fandom. I think I read one a loooong time ago, but it was set years in the future, so no kids were involved. (And it was a Ron/Pansy, if you can believe that!)

Nowadays, I'm not really into HP fic in general so I don't actively go looking anymore.

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

Well, I for one can't get over how there is so much nastiness among so called adults in a fandom around children's books.

I couldn't have said it better! Absolutely!

[juliejordan.livejournal.com]

It's really shocking beyond belief. I'm on chapter three of the saga of the story and I'm just sitting here in awe. I knew the HP fandom was bad, but not quite to such extremes. Seems like half these people need a padded cell and a straight jacket and NO computer access for a long, long time.

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

I only just finished chapter 4. I decided yesterday that I couldn't read the whole thing in one sitting. I had to go out and take part in some activity to remind myself that people are still capable of being nice to each other.

[juliejordan.livejournal.com]

I've just finished chapter five. My eyes are blurry and I'm sure I'm seeing stars. I don't know if I can make it through the whole thing (just how long is it anyway? God!) and am starting to skim over parts of it. It's taken me nearly two whole days to read this fucking thing and I'm still not done. I can't believe anyone would want to take all that time and engery and use it on something like putting THAT story together. Someone needs a social life - one that DOESN'T involve a computer or an internet connection.

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

Maybe it was done for a school or research project. (With names changed offline to protect the "innocent?") Somehow I doubt it, though.

I also had to put it away for a while before I finish reading. (I was starting to look very much like your icon. *G*)

I know I'd *much* rather read more of "Lessons" when you get it written. (*wink wink nudge nudge big grin*)

[juliejordan.livejournal.com]

At least if it had been a school project the author would have got graded on it and it wouldn't have been completely pointless. Although it has taught me that the HP fandom is even worse than I'd originally thought and that if I've got any sense I'll contiune to say away from it.

Aah Lessons. Yes. Well I keep trying to upload, but ff.net is being a jerk. Sealgirl told me a way of beating the system but I'm too lazy right now. But soon, hopefully. I've got chappy two edited and made a slight edit in chap one, because I realised there was a little plot hole. Hopefully ff.net will fix itself very soon. It's been three days now since I've been unable to upload, and many others are affected.

BTW, I watched Serenity tonight. I probably should have watched more of the series than just the pilot but I was impatient and I understood the movie anyway. Am impressed, the way they brushed Wash's death under the carpet (not even Zoe *really* reacted considering he was her husband) kind of pissed e off. Yes, after only watching the pilot and the movie I'm already a Zoe/Wash shipper and am looking for fanfic. I see you've got one starring them, so I'll read that. And I think I may have to go and buy autographs from Nathan Fillon and Alan Tudyk, who are guests at the London Film & Comic Con next weekend. This trip is going to backrupt me beyond repair.

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

I'll be looking forward to reading more of your story when you get the chance to sit down with it. (Of course, I'll also hop on over to FF.Net to read it again once you have it up. *G*)

Serenity was fantastic. Really brilliantly made, in my opinion. Naturally, however, I also had a hard time with the abruptness of the Wash death scene at first. I needed to see the film a second time to really see Zoe's reaction for what it was. (For a good bit of the climax, my brain was still back on the bridge with Wash and I missed a bit.) It was clear, upon re-watching, that she didn't care if she died too. The Zoe of the series would *never* have gone after the Reavers single-handedly the way she did. (Which you'll see if you continue to watch the show.) That entire sequence was 100% grief on her part.

It was their relationship that fostered much of my interest in FF fic-writing. (I've actually got three stories, all centering around them -- because I'm a positively unapologetic Z/W fan. *G*) There are also some fantastic stories on my rec lists. Most of them focus on Wash/Zoe -- or even just Wash. ('Cause he's my guy. *G*)

And if you get an autograph from Alan, I will be so incredibly jealous. Go you!

Did you end up enjoying the pilot, by the way?

[juliejordan.livejournal.com]

I think I'll like the pilot a lot better when I watch it on a proper TV. I don't generally like watching stuff on a tiny laptop screen unless I have too. So I'm going to purchase the DVDs of Firefly and Serenity once my cash flow recovers from London and watch the series in one big go like I did with each season of Buffy when I was a newbie to that. I really want to find out more about River, she's great. I like all the characters, actually, though I can see a lot of similarties between them and the Buffy crew (Mal reminds me of Angel, Kaylee's speech pattern is a lot like Willow's, Wash is a bit Xandery, etc) but in a good way.

My tickets for the Con arrived in the post this morning. I'm going to go hoarse from squeeing (my Madonna ticket came yesterday and I danced around like a lunatic clutching it for like, half an hour, lol).

[sharelle.livejournal.com]

River comes quite a way from the beginning. (Though you don't see nearly as much ass-kicking during the series as you do in the movie.) I hope you enjoy the rest of the series when you get to see it. I agree that there are some similarities between the characters and Joss' other creations (you can spot his scripting style a mile away) -- though, to me, Mal is *so* Han Solo. ;)

Yay for your tickets! I hope you have a wonderful time!